Tips and Tricks - Soundstage, Midbass
10-10-2009, 08:51 AM
#11
The resonances and other wonky things that I'm talking about, you may not hear, they may not be as obvious as "rattles".
Try finding some material (bath towels will work) and as a test, stuff the underside of the dash as much as possible, plug it all up whether you can drive the car or not, you're just playing with free ideas here.
grab a pillow or cushion and put it on the ground under your feet while listening.
Do a bit of critical listening and make notes...
Try finding some material (bath towels will work) and as a test, stuff the underside of the dash as much as possible, plug it all up whether you can drive the car or not, you're just playing with free ideas here.
grab a pillow or cushion and put it on the ground under your feet while listening.
Do a bit of critical listening and make notes...
10-10-2009, 09:01 AM
#12
i will try that after work today.
i am also going to pull out the woofers and put some kind of baffle behind them to help with cancellation.
i have excess dynamat, so anywhere under the dash i find that helps, i can apply it (providing its hidden:P)
these aren't major problems....honestly the system sounds amazing. i've just gotten to a point where i have to be picky on what to improve and make progress. and i know there are so many home-remedies out there that i don't know of but should try. eg. pillows under the dash.
i am also going to pull out the woofers and put some kind of baffle behind them to help with cancellation.
i have excess dynamat, so anywhere under the dash i find that helps, i can apply it (providing its hidden:P)
these aren't major problems....honestly the system sounds amazing. i've just gotten to a point where i have to be picky on what to improve and make progress. and i know there are so many home-remedies out there that i don't know of but should try. eg. pillows under the dash.
10-10-2009, 05:47 PM
#13
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
good point! we locate drivers primarily due to resonances, vibrations, hot spots in frequency responce, and reflections (odd harmonics). By addressing acoustics inside and outside the mid-bass and tweeter you may eliminate some of the issue. The windows of your car can also ruin the illusion of instruments in your car
A 3 way is also good if you have holes for the 6 speakers for your front stage.
A 3 way is also good if you have holes for the 6 speakers for your front stage.
10-10-2009, 08:24 PM
#14
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 233
If I were to suggest anything, I might say that you were perhaps to look at a processor for controlling x-over, eq, and phase issues. It's true that the relocating (or at least researching better locations) is the right approach, but to get that "up front" sound you are looking for, it is going to be a matter of processing and x-over point playing. The alternate housing for the tweeters will not likely help you in your situation too much with using the passive x-over as far as height is concerned.
My opinion......a three way front stage will NOT necessarily solve your issues. Actually, with adding another driver and no way to precisely control the output of the drivers with some form of processing, it potentially could cause more problems than you already have.
My opinion......a three way front stage will NOT necessarily solve your issues. Actually, with adding another driver and no way to precisely control the output of the drivers with some form of processing, it potentially could cause more problems than you already have.
10-10-2009, 08:27 PM
#15
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 233
This is a great way to start for sure.
Last edited by sawnicxs; 10-10-2009 at 08:28 PM. Reason: fix
10-10-2009, 08:56 PM
#16
well i started today by adding another layer of sound dampening to the doors, playing with the crossovers and putting baffle behind the woofers.
overall, there is a slight improvement in midbass and up front bass presence.
i didn't take any pictures though:P
i agree that i would need some kind of processing to properly put a three way set up in there. so i am opting against it.
i didn't have time to try out the pillow method, but i plan to in the next couple of days.
my doors come lined with a cotton lining stock. i'm blanking on the name of it. ....the stuff you put in a box to trick the woofer into thinking it is larger.
i haven't seen this before on a door, i wonder how it is affecting the sound?
the crossover change helped, but i lose a little volume this way, because the drivers can only handle so much:P
i also played with the tweeters a bit, and went back to where they were. my dash has a large bulge above the cluster, so i can only mount them so low....so they are pretty much in the optimal position right now.
thanks for the help everyone! between the deadening, crossover changes, and baffle, i am happy for now.
all that is left now is to clean up my install a little in the trunk. well its already clean, but i am going to play with the position of the box and amps to optimize space and to figure out the throw of the sub and how far back i should have it set from the trunk lid.
overall, there is a slight improvement in midbass and up front bass presence.
i didn't take any pictures though:P
i agree that i would need some kind of processing to properly put a three way set up in there. so i am opting against it.
i didn't have time to try out the pillow method, but i plan to in the next couple of days.
my doors come lined with a cotton lining stock. i'm blanking on the name of it. ....the stuff you put in a box to trick the woofer into thinking it is larger.
i haven't seen this before on a door, i wonder how it is affecting the sound?
the crossover change helped, but i lose a little volume this way, because the drivers can only handle so much:P
i also played with the tweeters a bit, and went back to where they were. my dash has a large bulge above the cluster, so i can only mount them so low....so they are pretty much in the optimal position right now.
thanks for the help everyone! between the deadening, crossover changes, and baffle, i am happy for now.
all that is left now is to clean up my install a little in the trunk. well its already clean, but i am going to play with the position of the box and amps to optimize space and to figure out the throw of the sub and how far back i should have it set from the trunk lid.
Last edited by jstoner22; 10-10-2009 at 09:05 PM.
10-10-2009, 09:31 PM
#17
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
The white lining is 3M Thinsulate, it is an acoustic and thermal insulation. Its effective range of sound attenuation is from 800 Hz to 20k Hz it just doesn't do too much in the bass/ mid-bass region, though when I have put in inches of the stuff it can over damp the sound (hard to describe the effect but kind of like how it sounds during a heavy snowfall with no wind... very quiet and spooky... in an audio system you want to turn it up louder). For the record thinsulate is one of the best acoustic absorbers made for mid to HF sound so it could add to the issue.
10-10-2009, 09:45 PM
#18
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Here is a quick and dirty
bring a towel or two into the car with you and just put it on things you think might be reflecting sound, if you hear a difference it is a reflection you can identify and may be worthy of addressing. This works for all drivers except subs.
When I am attaching materials to refract or absorb sound I use rubber cement to hold it in place (it sticks to plastic and fabric but leaves no residue on the plastic or vinyl if you decide to remove it)
bring a towel or two into the car with you and just put it on things you think might be reflecting sound, if you hear a difference it is a reflection you can identify and may be worthy of addressing. This works for all drivers except subs.
When I am attaching materials to refract or absorb sound I use rubber cement to hold it in place (it sticks to plastic and fabric but leaves no residue on the plastic or vinyl if you decide to remove it)
10-10-2009, 10:15 PM
#19
If you can switch the phase on only one side (lets say left), and midbase improves, Pretty much time delai will be your best bet. Other then that.... it's a choice of relocating or choose to leave the speakers out of phase:better midbase but a dip or peak will be somewhere else in the frequency range.
10-10-2009, 11:33 PM
#20
so if it only absorbs that high, then it shouldn't really affect what i'm trying to achieve bass-wise...so i geuss i will leave it in...i need all the thermal insulation in my car i can get
AAAAAAAAA, time delay is a no go. my deck is featureless. ..i will test out the phase thing though
within the week i am definitely trying everything recommended by you guys. thanks for all the input!
AAAAAAAAA, time delay is a no go. my deck is featureless. ..i will test out the phase thing though
within the week i am definitely trying everything recommended by you guys. thanks for all the input!
