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Ask Me Anything About Audio System Design
11-23-2010, 07:35 PM
#231
50 Watt CAFz'r
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 230
more or less - yes
11-23-2010, 07:46 PM
#233
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 230
Here's an ugly story:
I have been commissioned to review some amp designs with the goal of reducing costs while maintaining a specific amount of audio goodness and 100% reliability within the warranty period.
Sounds common - now let's put some perspective on this - the amp retailed for 300.00-ish - more perspective, the budget for the amp was 12.38...
Many raw drivers cost much less than this amp to produce!
I have been commissioned to review some amp designs with the goal of reducing costs while maintaining a specific amount of audio goodness and 100% reliability within the warranty period.
Sounds common - now let's put some perspective on this - the amp retailed for 300.00-ish - more perspective, the budget for the amp was 12.38...
Many raw drivers cost much less than this amp to produce!
Last edited by dogbaker; 11-23-2010 at 11:10 PM.
11-23-2010, 07:46 PM
#234
50 Watt CAFz'r
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 230
Look it up _ I already told you what it does... the rest is on you.
Clue - impedance rises are bad - I have been mentioning them in almost every post - they affect phase and overall frequency response and tonality -
Impedances are electrical resistances measured by frequency - if they change so does the linear qualities of transfer function - which is to say such rises work against linearity... This is a bad thing in SQ systems.
Happy learning..
Clue - impedance rises are bad - I have been mentioning them in almost every post - they affect phase and overall frequency response and tonality -
Impedances are electrical resistances measured by frequency - if they change so does the linear qualities of transfer function - which is to say such rises work against linearity... This is a bad thing in SQ systems.
Happy learning..
Last edited by dogbaker; 11-23-2010 at 07:57 PM.
11-23-2010, 07:59 PM
#235
and its clear to everyone that an Ice Cap costs 20 cents to make, or that Timbits were once garbage until someone gave them a name, right?
Don't get me wrong, your thread seems useful to those that need it, but its not like everyone is making speakers in their basements, so if it costs a company 25 dollars to make a speaker doesn't mean its only worth 25 dollars, not to mention their profits are what keep them in business, and allows us as the customers to buy these products that we don't make ourselves.
Furthermore, how can you claim to make a speaker that costs 1/3 the price sound as good in terms of tonal quality of something that costs 300? If so then why wouldn't you revolutionize the car audio world and build something to make something from the flea market sound as good as the 07 RE XXX 18'', which I've been told has the greatest response ever heard in a subwoofer. After that, write a letter to every speaker reviewing publication and tell them they're all out to lunch and all speakers sound the same and its entirely dependent on the crossover it is connected to. Then, prove your worth and enter IASCA's SQi competition and destroy everyone who wasted their money on "high end sq brands" (suckers).
Let me guess, competing is beneath you because you have nothing to prove to anyone. You know what you know and you're just trying to help others who don't know it, and then you attack AAAAAAA and say he has no experience or education on these topics. I say prove your worth. In the realm of car audio that seems to be the best way to solve any problem.
Don't get me wrong, your thread seems useful to those that need it, but its not like everyone is making speakers in their basements, so if it costs a company 25 dollars to make a speaker doesn't mean its only worth 25 dollars, not to mention their profits are what keep them in business, and allows us as the customers to buy these products that we don't make ourselves.
Furthermore, how can you claim to make a speaker that costs 1/3 the price sound as good in terms of tonal quality of something that costs 300? If so then why wouldn't you revolutionize the car audio world and build something to make something from the flea market sound as good as the 07 RE XXX 18'', which I've been told has the greatest response ever heard in a subwoofer. After that, write a letter to every speaker reviewing publication and tell them they're all out to lunch and all speakers sound the same and its entirely dependent on the crossover it is connected to. Then, prove your worth and enter IASCA's SQi competition and destroy everyone who wasted their money on "high end sq brands" (suckers).
Let me guess, competing is beneath you because you have nothing to prove to anyone. You know what you know and you're just trying to help others who don't know it, and then you attack AAAAAAA and say he has no experience or education on these topics. I say prove your worth. In the realm of car audio that seems to be the best way to solve any problem.
11-23-2010, 08:01 PM
#236
Look it up _ I already told you what it does... the rest is on you.
Clue - impedance rises are bad - I have been mentioning them in almost every post - they affect phase and overall frequency response and tonality -
Impedances are electrical resistances measured by frequency - if they change so does the linear qualities of transfer function - which is to say such rises work against linearity... This is a bad thing in SQ systems.
Happy learning..
Clue - impedance rises are bad - I have been mentioning them in almost every post - they affect phase and overall frequency response and tonality -
Impedances are electrical resistances measured by frequency - if they change so does the linear qualities of transfer function - which is to say such rises work against linearity... This is a bad thing in SQ systems.
Happy learning..
11-23-2010, 08:20 PM
#237
Again you are off the mark so show some consideration... do you not understand that you could mislead a person to the point where they waste their time and money and perhaps worse!
Go start your own thread and see how many people tune into you - stop piggy-backing off of me to gain an audiance...
Active systems can't tame impedance rises - passive Zobel Networks do... Active systems can't directly mitigate the electrical ring which occurs in tweeter with passive high pass filters; however, adding a notch filter to the passive hp elements does...
In fact - combining both within a system is most common practice in top quality offerings...
It is so clear that you have no formal education on any of these topics and that your experience is worthless...
Please note that I am not marauding around looking for threads to disrupt – I have created my own. Please do the same...
Go start your own thread and see how many people tune into you - stop piggy-backing off of me to gain an audiance...
Active systems can't tame impedance rises - passive Zobel Networks do... Active systems can't directly mitigate the electrical ring which occurs in tweeter with passive high pass filters; however, adding a notch filter to the passive hp elements does...
In fact - combining both within a system is most common practice in top quality offerings...
It is so clear that you have no formal education on any of these topics and that your experience is worthless...
Please note that I am not marauding around looking for threads to disrupt – I have created my own. Please do the same...
There was a huge thread about zobels not so long ago... here is an exert of why its useless in an active setup.... not that we couldn't implement zobel actively, because it can be done. The below quotes person is a smart cookie.
"...For example ... the all-mysterious "Zobel". All kinds of "magix" are erroneously attributed to it. Magix that are, of course, "lost" when you go active
A Zobel network does this : it compensates for the non-flat impedance of the driver, which helps the passive crossover behave like it's supposed to ... in fact, the Zobel compensates for a deficiency in the driver (non-flat impedance) so that the passive crossover can behave more like it's supposed to, more like a resistively-loaded crossover ... more like an active crossover.
We don't use Zobels in active crossovers (typically) because we don't need the compensation that they provide. There's no other "magic sq" associated with those Zobels.
Also ... a passive crossover and an active crossover will provide the EXACT same phase shift, per order of filtering. You don't gain any "phase benefit" by going passive ..."
A notch filter can, of course, be done actively... just like anything else you can do passively.
You loose.
11-23-2010, 09:13 PM
#238
50 Watt CAFz'r
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 230
and its clear to everyone that an Ice Cap costs 20 cents to make, or that Timbits were once garbage until someone gave them a name, right?
Don't get me wrong, your thread seems useful to those that need it, but its not like everyone is making speakers in their basements, so if it costs a company 25 dollars to make a speaker doesn't mean its only worth 25 dollars, not to mention their profits are what keep them in business, and allows us as the customers to buy these products that we don't make ourselves.
Furthermore, how can you claim to make a speaker that costs 1/3 the price sound as good in terms of tonal quality of something that costs 300? If so then why wouldn't you revolutionize the car audio world and build something to make something from the flea market sound as good as the 07 RE XXX 18'', which I've been told has the greatest response ever heard in a subwoofer. After that, write a letter to every speaker reviewing publication and tell them they're all out to lunch and all speakers sound the same and its entirely dependent on the crossover it is connected to. Then, prove your worth and enter IASCA's SQi competition and destroy everyone who wasted their money on "high end sq brands" (suckers).
Let me guess, competing is beneath you because you have nothing to prove to anyone. You know what you know and you're just trying to help others who don't know it, and then you attack AAAAAAA and say he has no experience or education on these topics. I say prove your worth. In the realm of car audio that seems to be the best way to solve any problem.
Don't get me wrong, your thread seems useful to those that need it, but its not like everyone is making speakers in their basements, so if it costs a company 25 dollars to make a speaker doesn't mean its only worth 25 dollars, not to mention their profits are what keep them in business, and allows us as the customers to buy these products that we don't make ourselves.
Furthermore, how can you claim to make a speaker that costs 1/3 the price sound as good in terms of tonal quality of something that costs 300? If so then why wouldn't you revolutionize the car audio world and build something to make something from the flea market sound as good as the 07 RE XXX 18'', which I've been told has the greatest response ever heard in a subwoofer. After that, write a letter to every speaker reviewing publication and tell them they're all out to lunch and all speakers sound the same and its entirely dependent on the crossover it is connected to. Then, prove your worth and enter IASCA's SQi competition and destroy everyone who wasted their money on "high end sq brands" (suckers).
Let me guess, competing is beneath you because you have nothing to prove to anyone. You know what you know and you're just trying to help others who don't know it, and then you attack AAAAAAA and say he has no experience or education on these topics. I say prove your worth. In the realm of car audio that seems to be the best way to solve any problem.
and its clear to everyone that an Ice Cap costs 20 cents to make, or that Timbits were once garbage until someone gave them a name, right?t
I don’t know. Is it clear? – Perhaps, to you and your s, in your world – In the audio world what I have depicted is you’re financial and sonic reality... We can all make coffee and donuts, but as you have pointed out, virtually all of us can’t make speakers and amps!
So forget Tim’s and let’s get back to audio, shall we!???
Don't get me wrong, your thread seems useful to those that need it, but its not like everyone is making speakers in their basements, so if it costs a company 25 dollars to make a speaker doesn't mean its only worth 25 dollars,
Answer Yes – you have under stood me! So don't think that's it's worth 300.00 or should have 300.00 worth of sonic goodness in it!
not to mention their profits are what keep them in business, and allows us as the customers to buy these products that we don't make ourselves.
Answer: Profit is the enemy of sound quality and reliability. You have argued that it’s an necessary evil – I agree! But it is an evil! So I say learn, build and pay yourself and in this way attain more musice for less cash
Furthermore, how can you claim to make a speaker that costs 1/3 the price sound as good in terms of tonal quality of something that costs 300? ,
Answer: Firstly I said 3x 300.00 - stop miss-quoting me, secondly: Simple, by using known electrical compensation circuits to assist in offsetting (not completely) driver(s) non-linear electrical and electro-mechanical qualities.
Big Name researchers: Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz, Novak, Thiele, Small, Zobel etc...
If so then why wouldn't you revolutionize the car audio world and build something to make something from the flea market sound as good as the 07 RE XXX 18'', which I've been told has the greatest response ever heard in a subwoofer.
LOL – The electro-mechanical part is the weakest link – the drivers magnetic density qualities, spider, surround etc are paramount elements which define the limitations of the drivers musical goodness - the purely electrical elements are every bit as important and are more correctable then mechanical limitations – therefore more addressable post production – via the research of the aforementioned!
So in other words, if those guys can’t fix a poor driver design – either can I. But I can use their research to make improvements as SOME manufacturers do
After that, write a letter to every speaker reviewing publication and tell them they're all out to lunch and all speakers sound the same and its entirely dependent on the crossover it is connected to.
That ‘s something you should do as I have never made that claim – I have never used the word ‘Entirely’...
Then, prove your worth and enter IASCA's SQi competition and destroy everyone who wasted their money on "high end sq brands" (suckers).
IASCA – High-End Brands... read my past post – I have been a judge merits’ within IASAC and USAC and have designed several transducers and amps for the top ten car audio brands!
And I am not sure why you are calling people suckers!
Let me guess, competing is beneath you because you have nothing to prove to anyone.
I am not speaking for you so stop speaking for me...
You know what you know and you're just trying to help others who don't know it,
You are a minority within this thread – thousands of hits and just a hand few of you beefing-off, while dozens are learning, so go open your own thread and see how you fend -
and then you attack AAAAAAA and say he has no experience or education on these topics.
AAAAAAA has attacked virtually everything that I have written - so I am free to defend my statements – furthermore, AAAAAAA is and has been able to speak for him/herself...
I say prove your worth. In the realm of car audio that seems to be the best way to solve any problem.
Do you really think that I have never been involved in the realm of Autosound completion – 100’s of vehicles, dear sir, have bared my logo’s...
– Unfortunately, true SQ is dead and that is where my heart is – as well, there is no profit in Autosound competition – just bragging rights – my list of accomplishments exceeds any glory that could ever be attained from winning any more competitions.
– SPL lives – reason: there is no way to within the existing competition circuits to objectively measure sonic goodness – just subjective means and that’s why we are all fighting – opinions are like *** holes, we all have one – so go join your kind and I will attract my kind!
For your interruptions and AAAAAAA’s I will no longer waste my time on either of you – comment all you want - ask all that you want I will not answer.
Last edited by dogbaker; 11-23-2010 at 11:18 PM.
11-23-2010, 10:14 PM
#240
You still never came up with my tapped horn design, and that was way at the beginning of this thread. Oh, and thank you responding to me after you said you wouldn't. Looks like what they say is true, people who try to show they're smart aren't really that smart after all.
